Why are Americans so opposed to socialized/single-payer healthcare?
I've been a nurse at multiple institutions in the U.S., including the world-renowned Mayo Clinic, and I can honestly say that most people do not get what they pay for, and many healthcare professionals are both overpaid and overworked, which leads to poor quality, expensive healthcare experiences for many patients. I've been shopping around for countries to move to, because my own healthcare is becoming too expensive (I have chronic cerebral vasculitis and an AVM, requiring several brain surgeries and am in the process of filing for bankruptcy for in excess of $100K that my private health insurance plan will not pay), and I need care, but if I stay in the U.S., I am going to have to file for disability and live off the government in order to get my care. My two jobs do not provide me with healthcare benefits, and I have reached my $750K lifetime maximum with my private health insurance plan, and will never be able to get private health insurance again - unless it is associated with a group healthcare plan with a full time job. My health is brittle enough that I'm predominantly only able to do per diem work. I need the flexibility to sit out from work for a few weeks if I have a bout with seizures. Though per diem work pays quite well, it's rare that it includes healthcare benefits. I've spent a great deal of time in Canada, the U.K., France and Italy, and they all have really phenomenal healthcare systems that are available to people regardless of their ability to afford or even find private health insurance. Many people who would otherwise not be able to work, because they need to be made impoverished to be covered by the government in the U.S., are able to work in these other countries. The current U.S. system seems to encourage capable workers to file for disability and "live off the government," because you have to be very poor in order to get government assistance for medical bills here. Why do people support this? I don't want to be forced out of work. I'm fully capable of working, but just under unusual conditions. Why not just set up a system where healthcare is covered by the government just like education, police, firefighters, military defense and tons of other services that people don't balk about having to pay taxes for? kathy069: As I've said, I've lived in Canada. Much of my family has moved there since the election of 2004. One of my significant others is based there. Their tax rate is not 50%, I'm sorry you have been misinformed on that. And their healthcare does exactly what it sets out to do: provide quality and thorough healthcare to everyone, regardless of their ability to pay, and regardless of their having private health insurance. I get my information from personal experience, not from the news. answer man: On the contrary. I've had brain surgery in both the U.K. and Italy (I have had 11 brain surgeries in 15 years), and in both cases, I was admitted immediately after having seizures, and received surgery within 8 hours of admission. That wasn't too long of a wait. It's terrible that you have been misinformed. Jen: I speak from experience. I am not talking out my ass here. Yes, it is true that in most countries with socialized medical care, there is a distinct shortage of primary care physicians (though that is becoming increasingly true here as well - they just don't make a lot of money anywhere), and so if you want a regular doctor, you have to wait. But if you have a problem that needs quick attention, you just walk into an E.R. in these countries, and you're in right away, and don't have an enormous bill (or one at all) afterward. It's true that cosmetic and unnecessary procedures are not covered by socialized healthcare plans, but they're not covered by our insurance here either. Everything that is medically necessary - even experimental treatments, have been covered by the government for my friends and family who live in Canada, the U.K., Italy and France. In cases where they do not have the capability to provide those procedures, those systems often send patients to the U.S. black leopard: You talk nonsense, and fear not - things are so bad in the U.S. that even the illegals are leaving in droves: http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB122289829299095859-lMyQjAxMDI4MjAyMjgwOTI4Wj.html Personally, I don't think that it's worth wrecking an entire population that needs affordable healthcare in order to keep those pesky illegals from getting any care. As it stands right now, those illegals walk into any E.R. and they have to receive treatment, because of the COBRA antidumping Act of 1985. But it's unlikely that an uninsured illegal is going to pay for the services that they are required to receive, so guess who foots the bill? You and me and everyone else! But in the meantime, the rest of us who are legal and concerned about our credit have to worry about bankruptcy and poverty from our medical expenses. At least socialized medicine makes it so that *everyone* gets cheap or free care... not just illegals. I do not understand your xenophobic perspective. Iceman: Your point lacks eloquence or sources, but I think you're more accurate than anyone else can imagine. Gold Standard: Rich Canadians go to the U.S., because they have access to risky experimental treatments and drug trials that are not available in Canada. They can afford to pay for those risks. I'm an American who has *regularly* driven to Canada for treatment. And I can tell you that there are tons of other Americans who do the same. Watch the movie SiCKO to see how prevalent the practice is. Are you not aware of the senior citizens bus tours that routinely go to Canada or Mexico so that seniors can get checkups or purchase their prescription meds across the border?! In a 2 second search, this is at the top: http://www.cancunmx.com/Health-and-Safety/Travelers-Guide-to-Pharmaceuticals.htm I wish you weren't so representative of the mainstream view... it's 100% wrong! JohnFromNC: Please tell me *EXACTLY* where you got the information that the U.S. provides the best service in the world, with regard to healthcare. This is new information that contradicts all WHO information out there, and my experiences working at the Mayo Clinic, were many people traveled far and wide, and we still could not give them better than they received elsewhere (see King Hussein of Jordan - 1999, for a quick example). I am most interested in hearing a mainstream proclamation to the contrary of *EVERY* other source I've ever seen in recent years. Gold Standard: Please cite a single recent (last 2 years) ballot proposition that is designed to privatize healthcare in Canada. In response to your answer, I just chatted with 6 of my Canadian friends/family members/significant other, and none of them could even recall such a prop, and said that if there was one, it was initiated by a fringe group, and was defeated massively. As one of my family members said, "if they're out there, they've been treated like those ballot props that say, 'hey, let's make head scarfs illegal' or 'let's mandate creationism being taught in our schools.' Nobody takes them seriously, and their presence is indicative of nothing."
Politics - 17 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
Because they hate America.
2 :
I'm sorry for your condition.
3 :
I think it's because Americans are against socialism. But I've been to socialist countries like Cuba and actually the healthcare is great.
4 :
The tax rate in Canada is also close to 50%. I have friends in Canada who say the healthcare system is horrible. If I were you, I'd talk to the people and not go by what the press would like you to believe. Those systems are simply not as great as you think.
5 :
The federal budget is allready $3,000,000 Million per year. All state budgets are $4,000,000 Million a year The national debt is $11,000,000 Million. There are only 150 million employed people to pay for it all. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/020238.html
6 :
Because the health Care industry is controlled by big money players like Kaiser and Blue Cross Blue Shield. They would stand to lose A LOT of money if Americans were given a more realistic option, like France or Canada, or like our Current Government employees. and, it would seem, the majority of Americans believe what they are told in regards to "Socialized Medicine", so they allow themsleves to believe that they have the 'best' system around, despite all evidence to the contrary.
7 :
You don't mention that you would have to wait years for your brain surgery if you were in one of the countries you mention, and that's if they let you get it at all. Government does just about nothing very well. They take our money, steal some, spend some on their pet projects, hire friends with some of it, waste some of it and then build a bureaucracy to spend the rest of it, leaving about 25 cents on the dollar for the original purpose.
8 :
Oh, honey, I wish I knew. I know part of it is due to Republicans telling people that it will destroy our economy. First, that's a lie since plenty of countries have universal healthcare and do just absolutely fine, and secondly, our economy is already in the pooper presently. But I am 100% with ya.
9 :
If you actually talk to people in these other countries that have government run healthplans they will tell you its horrible. The government mandates everything. In order to go to the doctor you should be prepared to wait in LONG lines, wait forever to even be able to make an appointment (I have a friend that is being told its about a 2 yr waiting period to get into a new doctor at this time) and then to be told that some if not most of the tests/procedures/medications you need are not going to be covered because of cost/your age/etc. I would encourage you to do more research on the government health plan and talking to people who currently have this health plan in other countries before making any decision on it. I agree with you that the private healthcare we have now sucks. I currently pay a ton of money every month for prescriptions. I agree with you that it definatly needs to be looked at, but a government run healthplan is NOT the answer for this.
10 :
I agree that our health care system in this country needs to be re-vamped. I do know the countries that provide universal medical care have incredibly high taxes, options are extremely limited, and usually have long waits to see doctors for routine care. I would much rather spend our tax dollars on health care for all americans than to bail out big corporate entities that were making high risk loans to people who couldn't afford to pay them back.
11 :
with a lot of illegals benefiting from socialized healthcare, americans are a little cautious with having to pay taxes that might end up benefiting more illegals than actual american citizens. if the government can find a way to address that problem, americans will be more willing to accept that concept. in the UK, muslim men with multiple wives are able to provide healthcare coverage to all of their many wives, imagine that happening here, it doesn't sound so encouraging.
12 :
America has the most greedy people in the world, doing this would be Less fortunes for alot of people,if a bill was being talked about, almost everone in the house would vote against having Universal Healtcare since that would mean, cutting jobs, less money for the heads of the many many health insurance companies out, can you even come to imagine the amount of people that would be OUT of a job if we were to get Universal Health care, Not to mention on another note that many people going into college to become Nurses and Doctors of different kind are only doing it for the Salary,and not the benefit of knowing they are helping many many people in need. Some do it for the good of the people but you would have to weigh in the amount that want to be doctors and nurses for the money.
13 :
Vote_usa Don`t you mean "The national debt is $11,000,000 trillion". Not million?
14 :
Most Americans have been convinced that socialized or universal health care would worsen medical care. The insurance and Big Pharma lobbyists have done excellent work over the years in persuading Congress that cutting them out of the economic bonanza would cause a crisis in the system, while those who understand the dilemma of the current system realize that the insurance companies are rewarded for decreased care and limited enrollment to those who are healthy. Interesting that no one complains about Medicare and the treatment it provides which is nothing more than socialized medicine. There are Americans who understand your plight.
15 :
Why do Canadians drive to the USA for medical care? Why do Americans not drive to Canada for medical care? There you go! BTW there are constant ballot propositions in Canada to privatize medicine. It sucks up there.
16 :
I could not agree more with you. From what I understand it's a mixture of thinking the quality go down and that people are going to start freeloading of the system, which is both entirely false. I wish more people like you would speak up in the system, because my belief is that people who like the american system are people who either a) can afford really really good health care or b) people who never have had any serious problems. It's only when you are in a bad spot you'll start to realize exactly how bad this system is. A system that is purely driven by profit cannot be expected to always give good care, because good care is not always profitable. Chronic diseases or rare diseases costs tons of money to treat, something most insurance companies will do anything to not pay. Everyone should have the right to live a healthy and productive life no matter of social (or genetical) background, and this is simply not possible with a private insurance based system. I really hope things work out for you, best of luck! Edit: I always find it funny how many americans that are so sure that the waiting list in other countries are years and years . If this was the case, people would die in spades overseas awaiting operations. If this really is what people think of europe, australia and canada it is very very sad. And I'm sorry if your goverment sucks at running things, but that doesn't mean everyone else are. Although that's beside the point, goverments don't run hospitals, they just pay for them.
17 :
Well to do Europeans are flocking to the USA to get their health care needs met. It just saw this reported on the Nightly News. They say the quality and service in the US is better than anywhere else in the world. As with all tax based services, you have to come up with the money from somewhere. Americans do not like excessive taxes no matter where or what it goes for. There seems to be a huge misunderstanding in this because so many people want what they think is basically "free" services. Nothing is free. You have to pay for workers, services and facilities and that comes from the tax base whenever the government is involved. The cost of health care, like everything else, rises when it costs more to pay people, develop cutting edge technology and the cost of raw materials goes up. Wages, which pay taxes, are not inflating as fast as costs. Lets assume everyone has some problem, like you, that keeps them from working. Who pays the bill? I'm sure we would all like for someone else to pay our bill. ------------- You need to get more rounded info from multiple sources. One source will always lead you astray. I watched a recent news report on TV. Saw it with my own eyes and they interviewed the people on camera so I know what those people thought. The reason the story had any relevance at all is that these people were coming from a socialized "free" system to the US for treatment. The question was - Why? Answer was: Cheaper, faster service, superior quality of treatment. They had the money and they chose the best system. Those who did not have the money stayed home. What this says to me is that innovation occurs only when there is incentive. You take the money out of it and it becomes mediocre. Of course, there is always the chance for excess and that will have to be controlled. And remember this above all, there is NO perfect system in the world. You can read stories pro and con about all systems. I do not like the cost of our system by any means. But, I'm not so sure I want to give half my income year after year to the government for a service I might hardly use. I also do not like paying higher insurance costs for high risk houses in hurricane paths and uninsured drivers.
Read more discussion :
